Should Christians talk more openly about sex?

	jenniferlana 9/11/00 2:37:50 PM Yes, Churches should talk very openly about sex and relationships especailly in context to modern difficulties involved with the Biblical Ideal. People use to live in tight knit communities and a suitable eligible partner picked thru a mix of matchmaker/parents/personal Choice. I saw on a tv show where the Jewish Matchmaking tradition of introducing eligible people based on long term compatability for stable Jewish marriges, was being revived. Christians would greatly benifit from something similar and might actually provide a solid foundation for the long-term survival of marrige. Too many leave poorly matched couples to premarital and then marital counciling and divorce. Frankly I wouldent mind getting a little help in choosing a life mate, the person I am suposed to be joined with by God for the rest of my life.
	mongoose 9/9/00 3:42:39 AM part 3 - So again, what's to talk about? We should acknowledge the intensity of the battle. Paul does, he says to FLEE - run like your life depends on it (it often does) remember Joseph & Potiphar's wife. We should be full of compassion for each other's trials, whatever they are. We should encourage and admonish each other, but take it from a fellow soldier who has the scars of the lust lion on his back - falling is deadly. Be careful.
	mongoose 9/9/00 3:42:19 AM part 2 - As Paul said - it's time to marry. Maybe the talking should be on how to get to THAT state sooner. Maybe you are engaged. BELIEVE ME if you do NOT keep your hands off the other you have taken fire into your shirt and it will burn to your regret. You can severely damage your marriage, and as such the life of your kids. But hey, who listens tothe rich man in hell trying to warn his brothers. You have the Scripture - read it. Some will not believe though one who fell has warned them who are "talking about it" resist the devil and he will flee from you - but FIRST submit to God so you CAN. It really is a battle. Ask anyone who has been in a war. It's not a game, you'll get a different perspective. But even ten, it can still be hard. One thing for sure, you can't talk it away or worm your way around the simple rules. That is only a trap. Sin is at the door.
	mongoose 9/9/00 3:41:23 AM Lauren, what's so hard about this. Well, I hope at least it is doing it rather than knowing what to do - at least that would be the right start. Do you understand that "talking about it" does nothing to change what is? What really then is the point? It should only be one of 2 things - what do I do and then how do I handle it. It is really simple - not easy, but simple. It has been said before in this column. fornication is sin. Sorry, my flesh didn't like it either. What does Jesus have to say about it? Try reading Revelation 2:20 about those who commit fornication with the Jezebel and their fate - as well as hers. True love DOES wait. Have any of us fallen? I did. Do I regret it? More than I can ever tell you.
	chester0 9/8/00 9:54:02 PM 3. One other thought - why the emphasis on 'evangelical' anyway? If you think that 'label' really matters to God, then me thinks the Deceiver is hiding in evangelical sheep's clothing just around the corner - or under the sheets!
	chester0 9/8/00 9:53:01 PM 2. The 'church' needs to talk about sex 'outside of marriage just as it needs to talk about gossip - keeping in mind gossip is just as destructive and sinful and nobody 'has a cow' when known gosippers are confronted. Until the church truly is a hospital for sinners and not merely a sanctuary for saints, singles ain't gonna get the support they need to live godly lives...mostly because the church has very few clues as to how grace is to be lived out. It's just a word.
	chester0 9/8/00 9:49:51 PM 1. Heck yes - the Church needs to talk more openly about sex. But talking about one of God's greatest gifts without an awareness of grace would be the same as encouraging the distribution of condoms, ie, if the church talks about sex, that will just make more singles want to 'do it.' I'm a minister and the people in my church never talk about sex. In the six years I've been at this church, 'sex' has never been a request for a Bible Study or sermon.
	judith100 9/8/00 3:43:00 PM Mom For Life: You would be well-reminded that there are all different sorts of whores before you throw the first stone. Think about that, oh great white virgin.
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:15:04 PM Part 6 3. By treating all premarital sexuality as the same, I think we tend to actually cause more intercourse among evangelical teenagers and young adults. I remember being taught when young that all premarital sexual activity was "fornication" with no differentiation in degree. I know that my experience was replicated by many another young evangelical--we engaged in one form of sexual play and decided that since we had fallen, we might as well "go all the way." If only for the sake of avoiding pregnancy and that other undiscussed evangelical moral subject--abortion--it might be wise to acknowledge to evangelical youth that it's better to sin a little than to risk other complications.
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:14:37 PM Part 5 2. Sexual difficulties are kind of swept under the rug in current evangelical parlance. Sure, there are plenty of marital advice books which cover the common ones of male premature ejaculation and orgasmic difficulty for women. But what about people that simply shouldn't marry because of honest sexual incompatibility? How do they know before marriage within evangelical morality? Due to a permanent injury, I am not sexually compatible with many if not the majority of women--and I will know before a potential marriage how?
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:14:12 PM Part 4 My point is I don't have the same opportunities for relationships that have any real potential--at least when I feel like needing some affection and attention on a personal level, I know that I can walk into a bar and find it (it helps to be quite physically attractive by most accounts but it adds difficulty in finding relationships with women of more academic mindsets.) This is perhaps sad and wrong, but I think my circumstances are at least partially a function of evangelical closed-mindedness. Because I don't meet the normal evangelical criteria of finding a mate while a college student and thus marrying young enough that pre-marital temptation is nowhere near the same as at 28.
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:13:44 PM Part 3 It is all very well for my evangelical friends to attack my actions as sinful (which they are) from their vantage points of being in solid, usually celibate relationships or else in good marriages. They're not in my shoes. As a general rule (I know I'm making a sweeping generalization--but I think it has a lot of truth to it), evangelical women do not date guys like me--young intellectuals with a strong skeptical streak who don't fit within the normal evangelical paradigm--I find Peretti to be garbage, Lucado-insipid and almost all CCM to be insidious in its mediocrity. And I do push theological buttons and boundaries--thankfully I teach literature at a secular university.
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:13:15 PM Part 2 However, I think evangelicals often fail to recognize that there is a major distinction between simple "sleeping around" and sex within a real relationship. I lost my virginity within the context of a relatively long relationship with some real meaning attached and I don't really regret it, neither do I feel guilty over it. What I do feel guilty over are the one night stands which I've had--mostly recently. They were wrong--however, neither do I find them to be entirely inexcusable.
	nathanthefool 3/24/00 2:10:54 PM This essay did begin some ruminating on my part and unfortunately I have more questions than answers. A word of disclosure on where I'm coming from: I'm a young, single academic--still evangelical but coming from a strict, fundamentalist upbringing. I've never been married but neither have I been celibate. I don't ask that my lifestyle choices be condoned by the church--but I don't think that evangelicalism has done a good job of approaching the issue and I often wonder if I would have made the same choices if I had heard more honest and explicit discussion when I was younger. This is what I do know: 1. Simple sexual partnership, i.e. sex with no strings attached is not good. My secular friends often deny this, but I think simple observation (let alone personal experience) makes it clear that casual sex leads to all sorts of problems in the long run.
	Shippit__2 3/24/00 2:25:25 AM t seems to me that the Bible is clear on this issue. But I would not discourage a couple from being physically intimate. I would recomend one not sleep around with who and whenever. God gives us impulses but sets the rules against them. This is a tough situation to be in. God creates us as sexual beings. I think people can get hurt if they are sexually quite casual; but maturity is important. SEX is not an evil thing; it's the timing thats wrong. Plus, the guilt makes us want to hide from God, "Adam where are you?"
	Shippit__2 3/24/00 2:24:31 AM It seems to me that the Bible is clear on this issue. But I would not discourage a couple from being physically intimate. I would recomend one not sleep around with who and whenever. God gives us impulses but sets the rules against them. This is a tough situation to be in. God creates us as sexual beings. I think people can get hurt if they are sexually quite casual; but maturity is important. SEX is not an evil thing; it's the timing thats wrong. Plus, the guilt makes us want to hide from God, "Adam where are you?"
	PrismGuy 3/7/00 6:46:20 PM Let's reflect for a moment on the anthropology the statement "A woman's true power lies in sexual restraint." What does this say about men? What does it say about women? (Hint: just look at what else she had to say about a woman in these comments.) Bonus Essay Questions: 1. Joshua Harris says, "you'll never regret purity." Does Jane Austen agree? Do you? 2. What would Freud have made of: A. MomForLife's suggestion to "make your man jump through hoops"? B. The phrase "Mom for life"?
	Mom For Life 3/2/00 3:34:10 PM As a mom of two little girls I've already considered how to someday say more than just "true love waits." Christians do discuss this. Joshua Harris' book I've Kissed Dating Goodbye defines "principled romance" and recommends it as a replacement for dating. Other books detail how a woman's true power lies in sexual restraing, that there is beauty in refraining completely from physical contact prior to marriage, as many Orthodox Jewish couples do, and that there are merits to early marriage. Ms. Winner wants a varied vocabulary in discussing sex. I will grant that her friend wasn't precise enough in her terminology. I would've said "unpaid whore" rather than "whore" because at least a whore makes the man pay cash and is honest about who she is. Whereas Ms. Winner is giving it away for free and at great cost to herself. As Joshua Harris says, you'll never regret purity. So set your expectations too high, Ms. Winner, and make your man jump through hoops rather than beds.
	Mom For Life 3/2/00 3:33:22 PM As a mom of two little girls I've already considered how to someday say more than just "true love waits." Christians do discuss this. Joshua Harris' book I've Kissed Dating Goodbye defines "principled romance" and recommends it as a replacement for dating. Other books detail how a woman's true power lies in sexual restraing, that there is beauty in refraining completely from physical contact prior to marriage, as many Orthodox Jewish couples do, and that there are merits to early marriage. Ms. Winner wants a varied vocabulary in discussing sex. I will grant that her friend wasn't precise enough in her terminology. I would've said "unpaid whore" rather than "whore" because at least a whore makes the man pay cash and is honest about who she is. Whereas Ms. Winner is giving it away for free and at great cost to herself. As Joshua Harris says, you'll never regret purity. So set your expectations too high, Ms. Winner, and make your man jump through hoops rather than beds.
	Mom For Life 3/2/00 3:33:07 PM As a mom of two little girls I've already considered how to someday say more than just "true love waits." Christians do discuss this. Joshua Harris' book I've Kissed Dating Goodbye defines "principled romance" and recommends it as a replacement for dating. Other books detail how a woman's true power lies in sexual restraing, that there is beauty in refraining completely from physical contact prior to marriage, as many Orthodox Jewish couples do, and that there are merits to early marriage. Ms. Winner wants a varied vocabulary in discussing sex. I will grant that her friend wasn't precise enough in her terminology. I would've said "unpaid whore" rather than "whore" because at least a whore makes the man pay cash and is honest about who she is. Whereas Ms. Winner is giving it away for free and at great cost to herself. As Joshua Harris says, you'll never regret purity. So set your expectations too high, Ms. Winner, and make your man jump through hoops rather than beds.
	sharktacos 2/25/00 12:54:55 PM part 3 Ms. Winners seems to overlook this. She sets up a strawman, and does not offer any better or deeper or more mature solution. I found this article's title very interesting, I found the content lame and reactionary.
	sharktacos 2/25/00 12:54:24 PM part2 Taken out of this context it is an attempt to fill something with an illusion just like alcohol. Just like alcohol it is a good thing that needs to be used responsibly. It can be just as harmful to never drink a drop as it can be to get wasted all the time. Same goes for sex. The person who learns to deal with their needs and desires healthily rather than suppressing them or being enslaved by them will be the happy and healthy one. I think the real problem with being single is being alone, not being "under sexed".
	sharktacos 2/25/00 12:53:41 PM I can understand Ms. Winners frustration with insensitive and abrasive people, but to just have sex with "whoever" outside of a loving relationship is not any better. Both extremes reflect an unhealthy obsession with sex. Sex is the expression of intimacy in a relationship, not something independent. Not a subsitute for it.
	Dictator for Life 2/22/00 5:44:49 PM Miss Winner wants honesty about sex, and particularly about what the Bible says about the matter. Fine, Miss Winner. Here it is. Check 1 Corinthians. God says there that if you can't control yourself, you need to get married. Check Deuteronomy. God says there that if you have engaged in premarital sex, it's time to get married. It's not really at all hard, Miss Winner. If you can't control yourself or have not done so, you need to get married. There really aren't any qualifications to be put on it. It's very simple. The only question remaining is this: will you OBEY God, or will you engage in verbal games in a desperate effort to avoid what the Bible CLEARLY teaches? It's past time for you (and all fornicators in the church) to quit playing your self-indulgent games and start obeying what God actually says about sex. It's for marriage, Miss Winner. It's not something you can make up your own rules about. It's not anything you have a "right" to enjoy before marriage. Repent, Miss Winner. Get married.
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